Will Yeshiva Tuition Skyrocket?

Yehuda · Guest

It seems that the New York Federation, the dominant partner in the Fund for Jewish Education, has announced that basic grants to yeshivas and day schools in its service area were being terminated:

http://www.thejewishpress.com/news_article.asp?article=4011

Tova · Guest

I'm not certain if tuition will increase as a result-- but from what I know, the amt. given is minute in comparison to the entire cash flow from schools. There are some yeshivas and day schools that don't get anything from the NY Fed or BJE. Prices for the most part are crazy as is-- some of the MO and Liberal schools for high school charge 20+K already...if it goes up who can afford to pay, except the most wealthy?

yonah · Star Poster Joined: Jun 18, 2004 Posts: 57

Trute or not, I have seen so many 'Privately sponsored' Marvin Shick ads in various newspapers - like the Jewish Week, among others. Maybe if he took his money and put it towards educational grants, he'd help by solving the problem.

I have lamented on many of these boards about the fact that when my 2 and half year old goes into first grade in 4 years from now, tuition at my local day schools will be close to $20K, and then I have another two years before his brother adds $20K to that. As bad as it sounds, a friend of mine with 4 school-age children commented that $75,000 of his income (before taxes) goes straight to tuition. For $75,000, I can hire a PhD to teach my kids at home!

It pains me to see that there are many Jewish Day Schools that are over 50 years old in this country, yet at the same time, they haven't found either good ways to finance them or improved education dramatically.

Although both of my parents (now in their 50's) went to Yeshivas, many of their contemporaries did not - they went to Public School, followed by afternoon talmud torah programs. A revival of the Talmud Torah movement would be a great boon to the Jewish world, especially in places where there is a high concentration of Jews - so that the public schools are almost entirely Jewish.

We also cram our kids into schools that normally max out at, say, 500 students. Clearly, the economies of scale in teacher utilization (at least at the Junior High and above level where teachers are subject-centric) and other expenses can't be realized at that small of a level. Yet because of hashkafic and other differences we will never have a school of 1500 or 2000 students - it just won't happen.

In Israel a decade ago as towns and villages went up over Yesha, there was this great building trend - Communities would have one shul building with two or three sanctuaries (Ashkenaz, Sefaradi and/or Yemenite) and one social hall - they had a communal kiddush every shabbat even after separate services.

Why can't they put 3-4 different schools on a single campus and then share teachers? A boys' only, girls only, coed ortho and egalitarian school. That all shared teachers, cooking facilities, etc.

I know that the reality of this is bleak, but think about it for a second. Meals and maintenance would cost less, secular studies teachers and, to a lesser extent because of hashkafah differences, could be shared and better utilized. I am not an economist, but I definitely think that this would really help keep tuitions lower for the simple economic reasons mentioned above. In addition, as one unit with more staff, schools could offer better benefits to their teachers.

heshy · Star Poster Joined: Sep 06, 2002 Posts: 59

I'm no economist but certainly economies of scale would exist in the situation you describe unfortunately i cant see it happening.

First that would take a lot of $$ to start that kind of campus.
Also when a new community starts they are united in what they want- with time as they realize they aren't so united and new people with new hashkafahs move in, new small yeshivas start.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if there was a Walmart of Yeshivas. They come in offer many "services" at a cheap price. They could offer many tracks like YU has (MYP, ). One would have extra gemora for those who want it, some with more secular for those who want that.

But there is always the hashgafa issue.

Jeremy · Guest

Who can audit a Yeshiva? I bet there is a lot of wasteful spending. Practices like the Principal putting his wife on the payroll at an inflated salary.Children of the Principals and Wife's Sisters and Brothers going to the Yeshiva for free. I think the Principals run the Yeshivas like their own private fiefdom like Koslowski did at Tyco and they are the ones to blame without question.

heshy · Star Poster Joined: Sep 06, 2002 Posts: 59

I dont know specifically if it is principles or others but I wouldn't be surprised if someone is making money somewhere.

What happened to shulamis? I heard rumors that the building is for sale with or without the yeshiva (can someone confirm?). But they are still collecting "building fund". Um, how can someone (other than the school) own the building if they've been collecting a building fund for years.

Jeremy · Guest

I was in the oil business. And I heard this guy who raise money from investors to drill 3 wells, would overcharge and use the money to drill 4 wells and keep the best one for himself. Just an example of someone pulling the wool over someones eyes. So I'm pretty sure if a principal has many nephews which is realistic in an orthodox family they are probably attending Yeshiva for Free. If there are 200 students in a Yeshiva and 15 are getting in free due to favoritism then that is 15 times $20,000 or $300,000 not being collected. Divide $300,000 by the 185 paid tuitions and that's over $1600 per paying student/parent subsidy. There are probably some other tricks going on too.

yonah · Star Poster Joined: Jun 18, 2004 Posts: 57

Interesting note about Shulamis. My wife is a Shulamis Grad, and through one of their alumni newsletters we discovered that they are running a 'sister' school in the five towns. When I first heard of it, it makes sense as Shulamis, (in theory) was always middle-of-the-road, and their client base, by and large, moved out of Brooklyn. Maybe the entire school shifts to Five Towns with the sale?

As for tuitions. It seemed that years ago, many schools would give free tuition to the kids of teachers. It's not just Yeshivas, but other secular private schools and colleges. It seems that many schools, primarily for economic reasons, are ending the 'free pass' process. Primarily because it got too expensive. To show the contrast, I know two schools in northern Jersey - one where you get 20% tuition for each kid for each year you've worked at the school - i.e. 5 years gets you 100% (not sure if it is per kid, or overall). I know another school where even part-time teachers can get full tuition, after a couple of years of work. But those are somewhat justified - even if from a tax standpoint isn't necessarily legal.

I have even heard a further rumor that certain schools also give significant discounts to local Rabbis (primarily in the 'burbs, where there are only one or two school choices) the logic behind this is that this is a marketing ploy, were parents might be swayed, one way or another as the Rabbis kids go to school X.

I haven't heard of any school that has done things like putting the principal's wife on the payroll, etc. But then again, in Brooklyn, where there were several Yeshivas caught in a scheme to launder drug money a few years back, anything is possible.