Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:00 am Post subject: The Modern Jew...
I don't hate the Jews, the Holocaust was a terrible thing, but sadly the Modern Jews use it to make lots of money. When they stop getting this money, their new motto for the Holocaust will no longer be "Never Again" -but rather "Never enough", I feel so sorry for those who lost their lives in such a terrible crime to be used as a cash cow by their fellow people.
israelis should just get out of palestine, it is not thier land (all israelis are either european or american) these israelis are just hungry, they are like thieves, grabbing land every day. they destroy olive groves and the like just so they can get luxury apartments, while the palestinians livelyhood is destroyed!
do you blame the palestinians for wanting to beat israelis?
Its all good to read about it and see pictures, but when you actually see it first hand, it is something that stays with you for life!
I have much anger against the Israelis, and I'm not going to pretend that i like Jewish people just cos of this forum, All i wanna say is The Jews have Occupied land which does not belong to them, Even the Israelis agree.
Who's right and whose wrong, well i leave that up to you to decide. Nobody should have to see a 3 yr olds legs and arms scattered 15 ft away from its torso, especially the mother who had just buried her other child
instead of everyone worrying about political correctness, people should stand up and speak freely about what it is they feel about the situation, whats the worst that can happen, you might get banned form this site, at best people might take notice!
War and terrorism are terribly sad things, especially when they're politically motivated, which, tends to be the case one-hundred percent of the time. Both sides are guilty of horrible acts, regardless if they are considered well within the confines of conventional warfare or not. _________________
I appreciate your honesty and the fact that you use dialog to make your point rather than hacking and forum boming as many have. Jew Central isn't a political site and I'd prefer we do not get into a mideast discussion because we wont resolve anything and end up getting charged up.
Let's talk about what we are agree on:
The holocaust was terrible, as anyone who has lost relatives, suffered etc will tell you, no amount of money can make up for it. That said, for most people it isn't about the money- it's about consequenses.
I wont argue about whose land it is- i'm sure you know the Israeli response. I'm sure lots of people have moved trees etc when they are building/expanding their homes.
Many innocent people have been killed on BOTH sides. If someone could just stop all hate, the world would be more peaceful and happier. Most people on both sides don't want to kill, they want to live their lives, play with their children and pray to their god.
It's amazing that people with so much in common can't come to a better solution.
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:04 pm Post subject: a calm but honest reply
I have to say i agreed with your first viewpoint. Sociologists have identified a phenomenon as "Holocaust Jews", Jews who sadly only identfy with judaism through the Holocaust and do not relish the positive aspects as well. It is that type of Jew that drives this Holocaust Marketplace but we still cannot lose the main message of the most horrible tragedy ever and preventing it in the future.
That's probably the last part where I agree with you. Jews belong in "Palestine". Actually, "Israel" is an older and more accurate name for the territory since the Romans (newcomers to a centuries old scene but still long gone), named it "Palestine". And, in the Old Testament, the Jews' only Bible and the foundation for the Muslim Bible, it is called "Israel". Why "Palestinians" have clung to such that name I can only attribute to ignorant rebellion. For this same reason, of belief in a monotheistic G-d who chose the Jews for this land, both sides should agree to Israel's place in the Middle East. Religion aside, Jews have also worked hard to keep roots in the beloved land despite centuries of cruel exile. A segment of the population has always remained there. After the rebirth of Zionism, settlers from around the world came to buy, work and when necessary, fight for the land. This land has been given to the Jews by the UN, fought for after invasions and developed. Therefore politically, the land belongs to the Jews as well.
I do not buy this "there is blood on both sides" statement made often by people seeking a common denominator among enemies. There is a HUGE difference between self defense and being an attacker. There is also a HUGE difference between soldier-to-soldier combat and surprise attacks targeting innocent women and children. The Jews in Israel would love nothing more than to dismantle half the army and lead peaceful lives, within defined boundaries. The neighboring Arabs make that impossible. Decades of war proving unsuccessful, they have turned their attention to suicide bombing and a cult of murder. If they ever want to grow as a people, they need to ignore these sick revenge schemes and develop democratic governments, establish schools, industry, housing etc. In other words, the foundation of a healthy society. Until then, they create a miserable situation for themselves and their neighbors. There are some Arabs who have realized the huge benefit Israelis have been in establishing hospitals that treat Arabs, and municipalities that create better conditions than in many neighboring areas. Unfortunately, they are stuck in a quagmire among others who do not see these things and seek only bloodshed.
I agree that it must end but until the Arabs peacefully accept Israel's current borders, the Israeli army must remain strong and defend and attack when necessary.
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:56 pm Post subject: a message was deleted
We don't censor much on this board but we do sensor profanity and mindless personal attacks.
This is a site for professionals, if you want to have an intelligent conversation then make your points, even if we disagree with you it is allowed. But to blatantly make up stupid clichés, curse and add absolutely nothing of value is not allowed.
Do you think that by talking this way you will help bring people together or give "the other side" ammunition?
We apologize for censoring and hope not to have to do this again.
Am not actually here to to upset people but am sick and tired of senseless killing!
I just wonder how many Jews are aware of the fact that according to the Bible, the Jews will not only return to Palestine but will also have to convert to Christianity before the Evangelists’ Messiah may arrive. In the current atmosphere of bonhomie and mutual interests, both Christians and Jews conveniently overlook this rather awkward detail. The fact that Israel has placed a ban on the observance of Christian religious rites, including carrying of the Cross through the streets and putting up a Christmas tree in Jerusalem, too is diplomatically ignored by the US media.
Palestinian Christians, like their Muslim counterparts, are subject to blatant discrimination on the basis of religion in Israel. This includes the prohibition of land sale or lease to non-Jews; the denial of government funding to their educational, social or medical institutions; denial of recognition and government funding for their holy historical sites; the denial of citizenship rights such as are guaranteed to all Jews under the ‘Law of Return’; the impending legislation before the Knesset that would make Christian missionary activity and possession of Christian scriptures, i.e. New Testament, illegal. Who is fooling whom, one wonders, in this not so holy alliance between Israel and the Christian Right in United States?
"A model ideal state will gradually spread its teachings and influence from nation to nation . . . the people of Israel will thus conquer the nations of the earth . . . all other peoples will be known by their detestable practices and idolatry [Christians and all others are idolaters] . . . they will be destroyed and will disappear from earth before the ushering in of the ideal era. To understand the Rabbinic conception of an ideal world it will help us if we can imagine a hand passing from land to land, country to country, marking righteous or wicked on the foreheads of each one of the inhabitants of the earthly globe."
Rabbi Michael Higger, The Jewish Utopia
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."-Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."-Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine, "Complete Diaries," June 12, 1895 entry.
now feel the love.........
THE "GREAT" LEADER OF A "GREAT COUNTRY", ELECTED NOT ONCE BUT TWICE BY PEOPLE WHO LOVE "PEACE";
Ariel Sharon: A Man of Peace, In his own words.
1. "I don't know something called International Principles.”
2. "We have the right to demand anything we like from the world. As Jews we do not owe anything to anybody, while the rest of the world owes us a great deal."
3. "I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child will be born in this area"
4. "With One hit I've killed 750 Palestinians " ( in Rafah, 1956)
5. "I vow that if I was just an Israeli Civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him"
6. "The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man, Because the Palestinian child existence refers that generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger"
7. "I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian woman is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do"
8. "In Lebanon, there was an agreement not to liquidate Yasser Arafat. In principle, I'm sorry that we didn't liquidate him."
9. In August 1953, Sharon founded and led the infamous Unit 101, which carried out a series of terror raids across the Israeli borders into refugee camps, villages and Bedouin encampments. That September, he led the Unit 101 in an attack on Bedouins in demilitarized Al Auja (a 145 square km juncture at the western Negev-Sinai frontier), killing an unknown number.
10. 14 October 1953: Sharon led Unit 101 into an attack on the village of Qibya in Jordan. Under his command, Israeli soldiers moved about in the village blowing up buildings, firing into doorways and windows with automatic weapons and throwing hand grenades, killing 69 civilians (mostly women and children). He later claimed he believed that the demolished houses had been empty of inhabitants, but according to the UN observer who inspected the scene, “One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them.”
11. In 1955, Sharon was reprimanded for giving logistical support to four young Israelis who took random blood revenge on Bedouins for Arab attacks on Israeli settlements.
12. 1982 - “Peace for the Galilee.” As Defense Minister Sharon masterminded the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, which he dubbed the “Peace for the Galilee.” In all, this operation killed many thousands of civilians and rendered nearly half a million homeless. On 5 June 1982, he sent tens of thousands of Israeli soldiers across the border to fight their way up the Lebanese coast. They eventually occupied Beirut. Heavy Israeli sea, air and land bombardment devastated a substantial portion of Lebanon. By the end of July, the Lebanese government stated that at least 14,000 people had been killed - over 90% of whom were unarmed civilians - and twice that number seriously wounded. August 12 became known as Black Thursday after a massive artillery barrage lasting some 11 hours killed some 500 Lebanese & Palestinian civilians.
13. Sabra & Shatila: The slaughter in the camps at Sabra and Shatila took place between 6:00pm on 16 September 1982 and 8:00 am on 18 September, in an area under the control of the Israeli army. Sharon’s troops, having held the camps under siege, allowed Phalangists to enter. Israeli searchlights illuminated the camps, while Israeli army personnel watched through binoculars as the death squads spread unchallenged through the camps. Whole families were murdered, many were raped and tortured before being killed. So many bodies were heaped into lorries and taken away, or buried in mass graves, that the exact toll will never be known, but Palestinian sources estimate at least 2000 people were killed.
14. The United Nations Defined ‘terrorism’ & ‘terrorist’ as follows:
A TERRORIST is any person who, acting independently of the specific recognition of a country, or as a single person, or as part of a group not recognized as an official part of division of a nation, acts to destroy or to injure civilians or destroy or damage property belonging to civilians or to governments in order to effect some political goal.
15. The United Nation Defined terrorism & terrorist as follows:
TERRORISM is the act of destroying or injuring civilian lives or the act of destroying or damaging civilian or government property without the expressly chartered permission of a specific government, thus, by individuals or groups acting independently or governments on their own accord and belief, in the attempt to effect some political goal.
If this is how TERRORISM is defined, how then would be defined what the Zionists are doing in Palestine today…
16. All war crimes will be considered acts of terrorism.
Attacks on military installations, bases, and personnel will not be considered acts of terrorism, but instead acts by freedom fighters that are to be considered a declaration of war towards the organized government.
17. but the ISRAELI-AMERICAN Definition is quite different....
18. Even in times of wars there are rules and forbidden acts...
Never kill women
Never kill children
Never kill old men
Never kill unarmed men
Never kill your enemy if he dropped his weapon
Never burn a green plant
Never kill an animal.
19. On the contrary the Zionist belief has a very different set of rules regarding us - the “GOYIM”
(Goyim: Hebrew word means "Non Jews including Muslims, Christians....etc!!").
WHO CONTROL AMERICA
“Every time we do something, you [Shimon Peres] tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.”
— Ariel Sharon
Knesset, Tel Aviv, October 3, 2001
"Israel controls the United States Senate."
Sen. William Fulbright
I found many problems with a lot of what you wrote- it is incorrect and/or misleading. For example the following quote surprised me and i wanted to check on the context.
Quote:
“Every time we do something, you [Shimon Peres] tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.”
— Ariel Sharon
Knesset, Tel Aviv, October 3, 2001
I found many problems with a lot of what you wrote- it is incorrect and/or misleading. For example the following quote surprised me and i wanted to check on the context.
Quote:
“Every time we do something, you [Shimon Peres] tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.”
— Ariel Sharon
Knesset, Tel Aviv, October 3, 2001
That article is from "InfoPal - The Independent Palestinian Information Network" can you get it from someplace that is more reliable.
I'm not denying that Sharon may have said it- though i doubt it- but it is wrong. The jewish people do not control america otherwise america would be much different- think about it- we dont even have school vouchers to pay for private educations (yeshivas) . And anyone who's lived in America knows that no one can control america- this place is too big with too much going on...
Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:17 am Post subject: confronting the truth
i do not know which of these facts and quotes are true or not. i do know ariel sharon had a brilliant military career and was not afraid to have actions misinterpreted in order to win. his motives were noble and he only killed those that did not heed warnings and/or had attacked first, just as any american military person would do. i know if we start looking into quotes and facts about yasser arafat, the page would turn red from all the bloodshed he is personally responsible for.
as far as second class citizenship, israel is the land of the jews. anyone else in the land is treated as guests. they are legal residents entitled to certain rights and priveleges but not others. that is one of israel's founding principles, to ensure that it would always remain a beacon of safety for jews in trouble. in this fact, it is not a carbon copy of america who welcomes everyone (within limits set by quotas etc.) it is the jewish life boat that still manages to have enough ethical and moral high ground to welcome others and treat them with certain respect (sometimes more than their own "homelands" would).
the fact is, if the palestinian treatment is so bad, let them leave. go to the neighboring arab countries. (however, the arab neighbors have not welcomed the palestinians in and treat them like garbage when they are in). jews have been chased around the world for centuries by brutal hostile hatred. spain, germany, russia, now possibly even france. we did not just suffer "humiliations at border crossings" (used successfully to stop terrorists from entering the land), we suffered beatings, rapes and killings. "we" doesn't refer to terrorists being prevented from killing, we refers to innocent families trying to make honest livings and lead good lives.
the fact that the 3 major religions all want to convert each other in the end of days ---so be it. noone can predict the future. we can only live by today. this means accepting help from any source. an atheist homeless person would not turn down a hot meal and shelter from a christian church even if they do only want to "save his soul".
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:41 am Post subject: Re: confronting the truth
lijew wrote:
i do not know which of these facts and quotes are true or not. i do know ariel sharon had a brilliant military career and was not afraid to have actions misinterpreted in order to win. his motives were noble and he only killed those that did not heed warnings and/or had attacked first, just as any american military person would do. i know if we start looking into quotes and facts about yasser arafat, the page would turn red from all the bloodshed he is personally responsible for.
as far as second class citizenship, israel is the land of the jews. anyone else in the land is treated as guests. they are legal residents entitled to certain rights and priveleges but not others. that is one of israel's founding principles, to ensure that it would always remain a beacon of safety for jews in trouble. in this fact, it is not a carbon copy of america who welcomes everyone (within limits set by quotas etc.) it is the jewish life boat that still manages to have enough ethical and moral high ground to welcome others and treat them with certain respect (sometimes more than their own "homelands" would).
the fact is, if the palestinian treatment is so bad, let them leave. go to the neighboring arab countries. (however, the arab neighbors have not welcomed the palestinians in and treat them like garbage when they are in). jews have been chased around the world for centuries by brutal hostile hatred. spain, germany, russia, now possibly even france. we did not just suffer "humiliations at border crossings" (used successfully to stop terrorists from entering the land), we suffered beatings, rapes and killings. "we" doesn't refer to terrorists being prevented from killing, we refers to innocent families trying to make honest livings and lead good lives.
the fact that the 3 major religions all want to convert each other in the end of days ---so be it. noone can predict the future. we can only live by today. this means accepting help from any source. an atheist homeless person would not turn down a hot meal and shelter from a christian church even if they do only want to "save his soul".
Why should the Palestinians leave/move to other Arab countries? From there own land
Am not saying all Palestine's are good possibly there are some bad ones but that still doesn't change the fact that "Israeli Jews" are existing on Palestinian land.
Jews have been suffering, but aren’t Muslims suffering? Not only by Jews but by Christians, Hindus, and Sikhs!
The thing with us is we fight-back! The Israeli army attacks people that don’t even have weapons to fight with so tell me who are the cowards?
Do you think people like blowing them self’s up? They don't have a choice when there house has been crushed by an Israeli tank.
True Arabs have always been a difficult people to conquer and subjugate by external forces. I suppose this should really be a wake up call to other countries to sort them selves out (come back to the Din, and prepare for the physical and spiritual Struggle) before the alliance of enmity, greed, and polytheism comes to their lands too.
I feel its going to get much worse.
And let me ask you this you say Jews want Israel so that no one can do to them what has happened to them over the years?
That is stupid if you think that Israel can fight back if it was getting attacked? Israel may have more nukes then the rest of the Muslim countries but let me tell you something they are going to have a hard time trying to nuke 100+ countries.
If even one nuke hits Israel it will be all over because of the size of its small territory!
I go to collage and there are around 17 - 18 Jews there we all get along (Pakistanis and Jews) actually we protect them from the BNP/NF and then there’s Hindus and Aryan Sikhs that vote for the BNP. And Israel selling weapon’s to Hindus to they can attack Muslims in Kashmir, I didn’t have a problem with Jews to tell you the truth till they started selling weapons to Hindus – forget it you guys wouldn’t understand am wasting my time your all probably old and extremely rich and can’t be asked! _________________
Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: final comment
The point is, the land does not belong to the "Palestinians". As I said before, "Palestine" isn't even a real entity. Furthermore, the Israeli army does not attack civilians and anyone without weapons. Period. Anyone who would think otherwise has just been brainwashed by propoganda. I do not want to continue arguing but now you bring up Hindus. I work with many Hindus. They are also peace-loving people, like Israel who only defends itself when necessary. The Muslims have set a course for taking over the world and what they cannot take over, destroying. Then they claim anyone who dares stand in their way is hostile and violating civil liberties. Thye blow themselves up by choice, according to the dictates of the Koran, not out of desperation. Then their familie reap the financial and social rewards. This is why the Palestinian Authority and surrounding Arab neighbors resist creating any kind of successful infrastructure- they leave it so the only way to "earn a living" is by dying. The Western World has finally wisened up to this tactic and will fight back with even greater force.
Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 5:44 am Post subject: Re: final comment
lijew wrote:
The point is, the land does not belong to the "Palestinians". As I said before, "Palestine" isn't even a real entity. Furthermore, the Israeli army does not attack civilians and anyone without weapons. Period. Anyone who would think otherwise has just been brainwashed by propoganda. I do not want to continue arguing but now you bring up Hindus. I work with many Hindus. They are also peace-loving people, like Israel who only defends itself when necessary. The Muslims have set a course for taking over the world and what they cannot take over, destroying. Then they claim anyone who dares stand in their way is hostile and violating civil liberties. Thye blow themselves up by choice, according to the dictates of the Koran, not out of desperation. Then their familie reap the financial and social rewards. This is why the Palestinian Authority and surrounding Arab neighbors resist creating any kind of successful infrastructure- they leave it so the only way to "earn a living" is by dying. The Western World has finally wisened up to this tactic and will fight back with even greater force.
I'd like to see things from your point of view but I can't seem to get my head that far up my ass.
you effeminate, self-loathing ass-pirate waste of skin! My dear delusional, bacteria-infested friend, it seems that against all laws of nature, logic and, indeed, justice you have found acceptance in the rancid shithouse we call Usenet along with all the other mentally challenged lemur-molesting depraved son's of bitches (hindus).
You have a grasp of logic that is rivalled only by lunatics and those with a propensity to drill holes in the side of their heads.
Do you realize that you are my bitch? Of course you do! Now, fetch me a chilled glass of Courvoisier. _________________
You were complemented before for your use of open semi-constructive dialog to make your point. Now you are using personal attacks, profanity and you have destroyed your credibility. If you want to talk inteligently, we welcome you back. If you want to spew venom you wont help your cause here.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Community :
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
